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Post by chickentalon on Jul 8, 2008 23:41:26 GMT -5
ok, hardcore sunshine fans know that the movie is very wrong in terms of real-life physics
the 2 biggest i noticed were:
sound in space(which can apply to almost any sci-fi movie in history)
and
the payload used to restart the sun
does it seem to small to anyone else? I mean yeah, a nuclear device the size of New York is pretty impressive by any standards...
but considering the sun is over 1,394,000km in diameter
and the earth itself is only 12,756km in diameter
the (estimated) size of their nuclear payload is 14.3 km squared
now to see how much energy released in that amount of nuclear mass is beyond my own mathematical comprehension
but considering the sun is many times the size of even Jupiter, its hard to comprehend a nuclear bomb of that small a size to be capable of atomically restarting the sun
my 2 cents
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Starshine
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There will be nothing to show that we were ever here - but stardust.
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Post by Starshine on Jul 9, 2008 14:40:10 GMT -5
ok, hardcore sunshine fans know that the movie is very wrong in terms of real-life physics sound in space(which can apply to almost any sci-fi movie in history) You're right, there are no sounds in space, but we speak about movies, and they need sounds to transport atmosphere to the audience. Look at Sunshine, Boyle said 70% of the experience of this movie is sound. I know just one movie how had no sound in space, it's 2001- A Space Odyssey. It worked pretty good in that movie, though it was more a stylistic device than a tool to create realism. Action scenes in space wouln't be so intensive without sound as they are with sound. And this point explains it: It's not useful to sacrifice atmosphere for realism in a movie. A couple of months ago, I tried to calculate the size and the mass of the bomb to assume it's nuclear-explosion-potential with E=mc² (Capa talked about "fissile matter", probably he meant Uran). But I found out that it's a special "dark-matter"-bomb and we know almost nothing about dark matter today not to mention how such a bomb would work. So it makes no sense to discuss the realism of that point. |
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hongi
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Post by hongi on Jul 20, 2008 9:07:25 GMT -5
Besides, it was merely meant to dislodge the Q-ball, not reignite the nuclear processes of the Sun.
I don't think Harvey should have frozen over that quick, nor shattered. It was a pretty cool (scary) death, but it was inaccurate.
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Starshine
Pilot
There will be nothing to show that we were ever here - but stardust.
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Post by Starshine on Jul 23, 2008 13:09:06 GMT -5
Besides, it was merely meant to dislodge the Q-ball, not reignite the nuclear processes of the Sun. I don't think Harvey should have frozen over that quick, nor shattered. It was a pretty cool (scary) death, but it was inaccurate. Indeed, if Harvey didn't drift away from the airlock into sunlight, Capa could have saved him. You can survive one minute in vaccum without any harm if you don't try to keep air in your lung. Mace idea with the foil and his order to close their eyes are useless because there is no medium how transports the body temperature, like air or water. So the coldness is no problem. And eyes cannot explode in vacuum  |
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Post by yarilee on Nov 10, 2008 17:28:56 GMT -5
Erm, as I've understood it, you can survive rapid depressurization only if you're in a tight suit that would protect your body despite a hole in it (which would cause the depressurization). Near-vacuum experiences are no full-vacuum experiences, and in this movie they go from 100 to 0 within a second with only foil hastily wrapped around their bodies (meaning no pressure inside the foil, meaning it is completely useless as it is pressure that keeps the cold out -gas pressure and body pressure).
If your suit had a hole, the depressurization takes a few more seconds in which time a body can react to it and besides, human skin can protect the body for a short period of time. However, in this fast and complete exposure, I believe the oxygen and nitrogen in your body would instantly expand and rip or block your arteries (happens even if you depressurize very slowly), and the water in your body would vaporize, which leads to your body being frozen dry. Sure, it may take a minute or two for all of it to disperse, but such a fast exposure with absolutely no protection in full-vacuum environment surely cannot lead nowhere else than instant death. Even if you were exhaling, your lung muscles wouldn't be adjusted to the rapid change of pressure and instead of slowly breathing out, the air would escape from your lungs before you can even keep it under control, resulting in your lungs rupturing and the blood flowing outside being frozen. As the water in your blood and cells vaporize, all the heat in your body will disperse along with it. With no protection of either skin (lung exposure) or suit to keep your inner pressure stable, you are facing a certain death and the damage will be irreversible even with very short exposure.
I've always doubted these sort of scenes in movies, and from what I got out of NASA experiments, I will continue to reject the possibility of surviving this as they did in this movie and many others.
Otherwise a great movie!
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Post by yarilee on Nov 13, 2008 22:57:19 GMT -5
....Not to mention that in the end, they're inside the sun and within it's gravitational pull, but still Capa and Cassie slide along the cube and stop midway because of it's gravitational pull, which surpasses that of the sun. Did I miss a rotation of the cube and if so, why did the other side of the cube still have gravity to keep Pinbacker in place? The Sun's gravitational centre is not in any of it's core layers, so that wouldn't explain it, and they were certainly not in the middle of the sun.
Otherwise a fantastic movie!
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Starshine
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There will be nothing to show that we were ever here - but stardust.
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Post by Starshine on Nov 15, 2008 13:45:40 GMT -5
The vaporisation of the gases in your blood needs some time, it would never go so fast as you said in the case of a pressure difference of 1 bar. Muscles and skin slow down the process up to one minute before the blisters become big enough to stop the regular blood circulation. The problem is that you lose consciousness after just 15 seconds because you need to breath out a the beginning of the exposition to keep your lung functional. But I'm sure that it wouldn't kill you directly. In the movie the air in the airlock pushs the gate outwards so it has some time to expand. No really rapid lack of pressure. The bomb has the mass of the moon Capa says in a deleted scene. Force of gravtitation not only depends on the mass, the distance is much more important look at this equation: Field intensity = y * M / r² y= const. M= Mass (of the bomb in this case) r= Distance The sun is very huge and its mass is concentrated in the core. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I guess I would be possible as it is shown in the movie, need some math+physics here to calculate it |
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Post by yarilee on Nov 16, 2008 13:35:01 GMT -5
Very good points, both of them. I was measuring it in my head against the experiences with divers. If a diver comes out of 20-30 metres (2-3 bars) too fast, he'll need a pressure chamber around him so the nitrogen bubbles won't rip or block the blood veins, but will slowly diffuse. I would suppose that the same applies in "diving" from 1 bar to 0 bar much faster than a diver would (and I suppose air pressure should decrease quite fast as gas molecules and particles are looser), in which case Mace was really lucky for those bubbles not to cause any major problems. Well, it's a movie, anyways. Anything can happen.  With the gravity issue, I didn't apply the distance to my theory as I assumed the gravity of the sun would be so huge inside the sun's shell that the distance wouldn't count, especially in a free-falling, slightly rolling and twitching cube. So, you're right, more maths would be required. However, if the cube had the gravity of the moon and was stable, I still wouldn't be jumping or running (or "falling") around too much, especially with the gravity of the sun fighting against the gravity of the cube. It's tricky, but I guess that's why we call it science fiction. |
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Post by yarilee on Nov 16, 2008 14:40:34 GMT -5
Hmm, I did the math (yes, I actually did spend an hour of my life on this), and the gravity of the cube indeed does not exceed the gravity of the sun. However, in these calculations I assumed that the cube is at the surface of the sun, as I used the highest radius of the sun and the smallest radius of New York State (if I use NYC radius, the gravity would be 1.6 billion times stronger than on Earth). At that point, the gravity of the cube appears to be much weaker than the gravity of the sun, as the field intensity of the cube is around 81.7 meters/second^2 while the sun has the intensity of 273.9 meters/second^2. The gravity of the sun will increase the further into the sun you dive, as the gravitational center is assumed to be at the core (to keep the nuclear process in the core active). Even if you are at the middle flat surface of the cube, it still doesn't exceed the gravity pull of the sun. Every object inside the cube casing would be flat against the sun-side wall, as the speed of the cube wouldn't count on the inside. However, as the cube is in fact falling, even with the help of boosters, it is accelerating, so you might be able to float inside the casing, if the acceleration is fast enough, in which case you'd be drawn closer to the cube, and depending on the side you are, maybe even walk. So, in this case if Capa and Cassie were on the sun side of the cube, they might be able to walk on the cube, but Pinbacker would certainly not be on the edge of the cube. The same applies if the acceleration of the cube does not exceed the gravity pull of the sun, and Capa and Cassie would be on the opposite side, they might be able to walk depending on conditions, but Pinbacker would be flat on the sun-side. In any case, good riddance of Pinbacker! |
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