Volunteer Capa

[generichiphop]

Although this seems like it would be a simple thread, I'm sure this will spawn several dozen original and different opinions! I welcome that... I have my theories and so on but would like others' elaboration... so without further ado...

Why does Mace volunteer Capa?

[kaliszewski]

I don't dare offer anything in the way of "legitimate" speculation here, or else I'll start ranting, which is good neither for the carrying capacity of this server nor for my blood pressure. So I'll simply provide the followup question:

Why in the hell does Kaneda go along with it?

Thank you.

[generichiphop]

Hahaha... wow... made me smile, that's a good one.

so okay...

1) Why does Mace volunteer Cappa

2) Why does Kaneda go along with it?

I cannot BEGIN to try to answer the second without having an idea regarding the first. Heh, I'll meditate on it.

[brittany]

My first response that popped into my head was: "Because then it wouldn't have been a movie."

[chero]

Wow. This is so depressing.

My thoughts:
1. Mace volunteers Capa because of their obvious animosity. Testosterone and male ego persuaded Mace to do it.

2. Capa AGREES because of the same and even more reasons: (1) he didn't want to let down the crew by being afraid; (2) although he is not a career astronaut, he has an obligation to the crew like all the others; (3) he wanted to prove Mace wrong by accepting the task ; and (4) although Capa is a loner, he is a genius with an ego.

3. Kaneda WAITS for Capa to answer Mace's comment. Due to #2, Capa accepts the task and Kaneda goes along with it because: (1) Capa ACCEPTED; (2) Capa is skilled beyond his years and has done it "thousands of times in Earth-Orbit training"; (3) Capa was the only one there who wasn't declined and/or readily accessible [Trey made the mistake and was immediately shut down when he volunteered, Harvey was second-in-command which made him immune, Mace and Cassie both seemed pretty busy in the flight deck, Corazon was needed to monitor the oxygen usage, and Searle seemed to have avoided the situation]; and (4) even though Capa is a valuable asset to the crew, Kaneda has always trusted in his judgment [Does the decision for an adjusted trajectory ring a bell?]

[nimue]

The way I see it. Mace was still pissed off with Capa.

[neiru2012]

I agree with all the reasons already stated for Mace volunteering Capa, for Capa accepting, and for Kaneda going along with it. While sending Kaneda and Capa, the 2 most valuable crew members, might not have been the wisest choice, I think it follows an archetypal plot progression (the mentor has to die so the hero can become his own person, ex: Obi Wan dying in front of Luke) and establishing precedent (that Capa is afraid of space, that Capa KNOWS how to use a spacesuit) so that Capa donning spacesuit at the end flows better and you better understand how much courage it took for him to do that. Eeek, run on sentance. ^_^;

[kaliszewski]

neiru2012 said:

I agree with all the reasons already stated for Mace volunteering Capa, for Capa accepting, and for Kaneda going along with it. While sending Kaneda and Capa, the 2 most valuable crew members, might not have been the wisest choice, I think it follows an archetypal plot progression (the mentor has to die so the hero can become his own person, ex: Obi Wan dying in front of Luke) and establishing precedent (that Capa is afraid of space, that Capa KNOWS how to use a spacesuit) so that Capa donning spacesuit at the end flows better and you better understand how much courage it took for him to do that. Eeek, run on sentance. ^_^;

But isn't there something inherently "wrong" with the fact that we recognize it as an "archetypal plot progression"? In other words, it seems to me that Garland is setting Kaneda up here: "Oh, you have to die now, Kaneda. Capa has to be his own guy!"-- and Kaneda IS GOING ALONG WITH IT. Just "because."

A friend of mine who's in management provided a more realistic model of the situation:

MACE: I volunteer... Capa.

KANEDA: Thank you for volunteering, Mace. Suit up.

MACE: But I volunteered Capa--!

CAPA: [Feeling his manliness is about to take a pounding here] It's alright, Captain: I'll do it.

KANEDA: You can go sulk if you have to, Capa. It's Mace's job, and he knows it. And I'm sick to hell of you two fighting.

As written in the film, it's less like a plot progression than a setup. Garland wants to get the characters from point A to point B, and he's perfectly willing to sacrifice logic, sense, job function, and the arbitrary fact of Capa's importance to do it. It makes no sense. It happens ONLY to move the plot along, and I don't buy it. If Mace had been incapacitated, say-- if they made it clear that Kaneda was the ONLY other one who could perform the job, then fine. (Maybe. You'd still send your second in command first. That's what your second in command is there for. Suit up, Harvey...!) As it stands, it simply flies in the face of common sense. No, thank you.

And it REALLY makes no sense following Mace's "I'm all mission-focused" statement in Medical. Y'know: after his little rasslin' match with Capa, just before Mace "cleans up his act." He shows up with his shave and his buzz cut, all prepared to devote himself professionally to the mission-- and the first thing he does is volunteer the mission's most irreplaceable, critical piece of "equipment"-- Capa-- for a dangerous repair job that that piece of "equipment" is only barely qualified to perform (I mean, come on: Cassie's "thousands of times" comment is not to remind Capa of his great competence in spacewalking and shield repair, it's hand-holding: He's practically petrified with fear!)...! WHAAAT--?!?

Mace volunteers Capa because he's still feeling petty after Capa nixes his chance of sending home his final message. But he shouldn't be feeling THAT petty. He's a professional with a mission to complete. So why is he feeling that petty? Because Alex Garland WANTS him feeling that petty.

And Kaneda goes along with it. There's no logical reason why he should: he's the captain, he gives the orders, Mace is better qualified to complete the repairs at hand (he IS the mission's mechanic), and Capa should NOT be risking his life performing mundane but very dangerous tasks. So why does he go along with it? Because Alex Garland WANTS him to.

I know I said: no rant. But this type of writing really gets my goat....

[neiru2012]

Hehe, I agree with what you're saying too (it's a lot more commonsensical to send Harvey and Mace), but I enjoy archetypal progression and wouldn't have liked the movie as much if Kaneda and Capa weren't sent out. I look for mythical parallels more than common sense from a story, and treat it as a dark fantasy fairy tale. Plus Capa is adorable when he's scared! But yeah... It's one of those "I see what you're saying, I just like it better this way" sorta things.

[chero]

I also see this as key character development for Mace. Mace made the suggestion for Capa to go and Capa accepted. Mace therefore had to make a decision whether or not to combat Icarus' demand to change the shield's rotation. The decision almost killed Capa, an act which Mace avoids when he is struck with a similiar conflict onboard the Icarus I.

Kaneda's death was unfortunate, but necessary. Blame it on Garland, but its important for character development, too. It's not just Mace either.

[hadara]

I replied on a different thread, I think, where this was discussed...I thought that maybe Kaneda agreed to Mace's suggestion because he had the foresight to know that in the end it would come down to Capa needing to detonate the bomb manually, and that something might go wrong enough to require him getting the suit on and going through the motions that end up happening. Not only does it give Capa some experience out there in space - since he has only done it in Earth orbit training so far - but it gives the audience the plausibility to believe that later in the film, seeing Capa do everything that he does to get to the bomb, it could have really happened.

[timpsi]

Well I think the simple reason why Mace volunteers Capa is because Capa's the one who decided that they should make a detour at Icarus I. And when Trey messed up the shields while programing the ship to change course, Mace thinks that Capa's the one responsible at the start. That's why Mace volunteers Capa in my opinion =D

[redshift]

After watching Sunshine again a few nights ago, I'm starting to ponder this question more and more. I think what it comes down to is:

a)the simmering, macho animosity there is between Capa and Mace, stemming from their first bustup over Capa taking too long to send his message home in the booth, and thereby denying Mace his chance to send his message (I too would be pissed if that were me).

b)this rivalry continues as we see Mace unable or unwilling to apologise to Capa after the event; his pride is too great

c)In a final chance to show who's more worthy, Mace has an opportunity to put Capa on the spot by volunteering him for a dangerous mission, betting on Capa NOT accepting and confirming him as a coward. But Capa surprises Mace by accepting. This impresses Mace, because he knows that Capa is the only one who can deliver the bomb payload; if anything goes wrong out there, and Capa dies, the mission is over. At that point, Mace - who seems to have contempt for scientists, finally develops respect for Capa.

As for Kaneda allowing all this to go on, I agree with another poster: Kaneda perhaps felt this was a good opportunity to test Capa in a real scenario with real peril. He perhaps feels that since Capa is the only one who can deliver the payload, he is the only member of the crew who matters. Ironically, by placing him in danger at this point, and risking him on a seemingly routine repair mission, he is in fact confirming Capa as mission leader, upon whom all else depends. This "baptism of fire" (quite literally in Capa and Kaneda's case) shows Capa has what it takes to complete the mission, alone if need be.

[brittany]

Nice response, redshift! LY

[Starshine]

I still do not understand why Kaneda allowed Capa to go with him. I mean, the repair is not low-risk because they have to operate in front of the shield. I think that Kaneda wanted to test him is not a satisfactory reason. And Capa trained a lot of times how to suit up in earth orbit.

Besides outside in space in a suit you get more radiation than in a spaceship, especially if you are close to the sun. And suits can block just a part of it what means that they could make a astronaut really sick.

All of all, space-walks are dangerous and never risk-free.

I think in a real space mission the essential person for the success of the mission would never be risked just to test him or because of ordinary emotional conflicts.

And Capa is the protagonist in the movie, so we identify with him. The scene is more exciting when he is outside in danger instead of somebody else