Describing the Film

[Amanda]

Okay.

So.

I've been thinking about the film today (surprise). While I was in London, I fangirled a lot. I spoke with other people and giggled about Mapa and then focused on what everyone else was saying about the film, but now that I'm home, I've been thinking of it for myself and trying to decide what I think and how I feel about it.

And I still can't quite put it into words. But here's what I've said so far:

I told Gia that I think it's a religious experience in itself. And I told Kim that I think the film is very personal. I told her I wanted to say, "Oh, you'll love it!" or maybe even agree that she wouldn't, but I just can't say either because it's just too entirely personal and I can't tell anyone whether they'll like it or not.

So, friends who've seen the film, do you feel the same, or is it just me? I just feel like every single person who walks away from the film comes home with an entirely different experience. I cried thinking about it today-- more than I did even watching the film. I think that's pretty f(u)cking profound.

[chero]

I think that this movie attempts to answer the ancient question: What is the meaning of life? Are we just stardust or is there a purpose?

All along, I took the viewpoint of Searle even before I saw Sunshine - but not to such extremity. I think that the universal concept of God was slightly antagonized - particularly through the character of Pinbacker. However, as Gia said, there are many shades of logic. Even though the Sun will eventually die after the payload is delivered, life deserves to live on. I think "God" is who you make it to be. "God's plan" is what you think it is. I'm not an atheist because accepting that you are alone in this world is rather depressing. Maybe I just don't get the concept.

We're all the same, sure. But thinking that there's something to look forward to - whether it's Heaven or an afterlife - makes reality a little bearable. I totally believe science, but then again religion gives me the comfort I need to keep from crying.

Sunshine, in my opinion, is a struggle between science and religion. Who wins? It's all in the interpretation. Personally, I think it's a truce. Capa proves that science is a strong player by "defying God's plan" and altering the Universe. You bet though that people back on Earth were praying for their success. Also, if Searle thought that he was staring into the "face of God" via the Sun, wouldn't keeping it alive keep God alive?

EDIT// Is this subject too touchy? I changed my statement about atheism. I sounded too harsh and I apologize. I just don't know much about it.

I was thinking about Harvey earlier today. I wonder why the organizer of the mission placed him second in command. Wouldn't a psychologist realize that 16 months (or around there) is a really long time for the mind to change? He is the only one with a spouse (I think). Why him? I really think Corazon would be better. She is pretty important to the Oxygen Garden.

[sunshinedna]

It *is* an entirely personal experience. I disagree with Brian's interpretation on what it's about... and even *my* interpretation changes. It's about a LOT of things. I can't even begin to tell people what it's about!

I was thinking about Harvey the other day. So he's married - the only one - and he got through the psych tests to go on the mission. Surely missions to Mars will have people who are 'connected' to others on Earth. They want the best person for the job, not just the best *single* person for the job!... but what I was thinking about was the fact that he's listed as a Christian, but when it comes right down to it, he's the most terrified of dying. Kaneda (Buddhist) is fascinated. Searle (n/a) is fascinated. Trey (n/a) (if you believe he killed himself!) did so for the mission, sacrificed himself. Corrie (is she buddhist??) had no prior knowledge she was going to die (though the need to get rid of three breathers wasn't an issue for her). Mace (n/a) again sacrificed himself for the mission. The only one who was terrified was Harvey. He totally lost it...

I find that interesting because I thought that religion's aim was to give people comfort with the idea of dying... that there's something better to go to afterwards...

[brittany]

If you want specifics, I have Harvey down as a Protestant and we don't know for sure what Corazon's religion is. I really feel for Harvey, though. It is strange how he would be fearful of death. But something to consider: death deals with the "unknown." No book can confidently say what life after death (if at all) is really like. I guess when it comes down to facing your ultimate end, this clicks in your head.

Who knows? Maybe I'm entirely wrong and Harvey just freaked out for no reason.

[sunshinedna]

Harvey freaked out cos he'd convinced himself they were all going to get home again. He was probably the only one who hadn't come to terms with the idea that they might die for the mission.

[Amanda]

I was trying to explain to Kim the reason for them to go to the Icarus I without giving everything away. I explained how ultimately the reason for going there was Harvey's decision because he felt that it was absolutely necessary. At first it wasn't necessary to go there-- if the Icarus I had been lost they wouldn't have been able to have a second bomb in the first place-- but then when it came down to Harvey, he was so terrified of dying and being unable to get home that he sort of made a "bad" decision that actually led to his own demise. It doesn't really add to the discussion here, but at least it's sort of relevant. I've just been thinking a lot about Harvey, too. And about what Troy said about how Harvey likes to think he's a brave guy, but really he's just like everyone else.

Which makes me wonder how I'd feel if I were in that position, and whether my religion would have any sort of weight on my ultimate decision.

I read a really great quote in a book today, and it immediately reminded me of the film:

"You know, one of the most shocking things about it is to realize how easily we have lost a world that seemed so safe and certain."

She was quite right. It was that simplicity that seemed somehow to be the nucleus of the shock. From very familiarity one forgets all the forces which keep the balance, and thinks of security as normal. It is not.

Of course, in the book they're talking about "losing the world" to a sort of epidemic caused by blindness and walking, carnivorous plants (creepy!), but it's the same general idea.

[chero]

Trey reminds me of extraordinarily smart students. How they are so obsessed over getting the best mark that they make sacrifices, whether it's communication skills or health (regarding food and/or sleep). In the States, we have the SATs and ACTs. Some people go great lengths to study for these exams to get into the most prestigous (sp?) colleges. I've also heard a lot about higher education exams in Asian countries. It's pretty deep stuff. Poor Trey... :*0

[Amanda]

I don't know that he'd lose sleep over something like that, though. I think the reason he took it so hard is because normally he's just so able to make things work and make things go like they're supposed to without an extraordinary effort that when he forgot something simple like that it just completely blew his mind.

[chero]

Well we all obviously know what Trey would do in a situation like that, but I was only correlating the extreme emotion and guilt he must have felt before his death to ambitious students today.

Question: Did anyone catch the name of the next captain after Harvey? Was it Capa since he investigated the Observatory alone when he learned about the fifth crew member?

[Hugh]

Capa, as I recall, investigated the obs. room because he was the one talking to Icarus and found out that there was someone there. I don't remember anything about who came after Harvey - I don't believe it was ever mentioned, but I doubt Capa would be 3rd in line, as he was non-military. I'd imagine probably Mace or Searle would come 3rd.

[chero]

Then this begs another question: Who came after Searle? :*0

I really think its Mace then. I just figured that it could have been Capa since he took the initiative to check out the Observatory Room alone. That's kindda "captain-ish" right?

Also, did anyone feel that it was unfair that Kaneda agreed to Mace's decision to make Capa come with him? Why did Capa agree in the first place if he isn't a career astronaut? I think Capa was way more important than Harvey. Don't you think?

[aroreiel]

Okay finally I post in this thread. I'm gonna be seeing the film again tomorrow night, so I can make more sense on what I think it's about. But thinking about it now it sorta comes into my mind as it being about human endurance in a desperate situation. With people trained and supposedly equipt to deal with intense situations, but when faced with the reality of it, it becoming profound and human instincts and fears for survival take hold (kind of reminds me of the soldiers in 28 Days Later.)

The absolute overwhelming reality of facing the source of all life and its mortality....and yours. Religion vs Science or how they are even related. I'm confused because I beleive it's about a lot of things, that I can't organise in my head right now. I don't even think I'm making sense to be honest. That's why I want to see it again.

Chero, I agree with you, about Capa being allowed to go out there with Kaneda. I didn't get why Mace did that, considering when they need to get back from Icarus I and Mace is adamant that Capa be in the spacesuit because he is the most important life in the mission. Kaneda should've known better.

I don't think Capa would've been high in line for Captain. Despite him being the most important for the mission in terms of the payload, he wasn't an astronaut. After Harvey, I'm guessing it was Searle but after then...who knows.

[Starry_MelC]

Is it possible that Kaneda and Mace wanted to sort off "train" Capa? Build up his confidence or something??? I have no idea how that's gonna help...

Quite frankly, I would think Mace would be better as second-in-command. ya, sure, there's times where he get all impatient and stuff. But really, he knows what he's doing and he's best under pressure. He might seem cold and all, but still he really fixes things.

[brittany]

Yeah, I agree with MelC. Mace is really focused throughout the mission. Poor Cassie...[/color]

[chero]

starrymelc said:

But really, he knows what he's doing and he's best under pressure. He might seem cold and all, but still he really fixes things.

Literally! He thought of the plan to exit Icarus 1 (making those spacesuits) and he overrode the Icarus 2 mainframe. He had to do some rash things in order to protect the mission. Very "captain-ish" indeed!