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Post by neiru2012 on Aug 16, 2007 17:44:09 GMT -5
Background for the question: I used to only focus on storylines, and characters only by extension of a storyline. Then I realized that most storylines in movies aren't that great, so if I'm going to enjoy something, I need to find a new focus. I started focusing on individual characters, so that if I find a character I like, I can enjoy the story because I will care what happens to that character. If the story ends up being good in its own right, all the better. Sometimes both the story and the characters suck, and then I'm stuck with focusing on actors and actresses I like.
I have since amassed a large list of characters from movies, books, anime, games, etc that I absolutely adore. I like them in and of themselves, outside of any relationships (real or imagined) they may have, and outside their respective storylines even. When I try to share these feelings with my friends, I stumble upon a brick wall. See, somehow all my friends focus entirely on relationships between characters. They very rarely like a character as an individual. They don't even see individuals. Their liking of a character is based entirely upon that character's interaction with another character. Outisde of this, the character means nothing.
In order to carry on coherent conversations with my friends, I've started to 'ship characters. I see these relationships as a fun perspective from which to enjoy the storyline, but it is very rare when I care about the relationship as much I would care about an individual. In my pairings, one of the characters always far and beyond outshines the other, and I can like that character just as much (probably more) outside of the relationship.
The fact that such a split in character appreciation exists fascinates me, so I just wanted to see what the breakdown on this board is.
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Post by Starry_MelC on Aug 16, 2007 20:35:42 GMT -5
To be honest, I focus on actors more. If I like the actors, it REALLY helps me to enjoy the film. If I dont, it takes a REALLY good movie to make me interested. For example, there's a few actors I'll watch regardless of storyline or characters, for example, Michelle. Even if she acts in a REALLY lousy film, I'd just focus on the her like her performance. But if the actors are those I cringe every time I see them (lets hope none of you kills me) for example, Zhang Ziyi. Even if she acts in the best movies of all time, I can easily get annoyed. Usually, I'd boycott movies with actors I dislike, unless of course like ZZY's case, she has 2 films with Michelle, whereby I still watch it.
If let's say I have no feelings for any actor of a certain film, this is where I focus on the storyline. Then the characters. But although I focus on the storyline first, the characters are more likely to make me a fan of a movie.
So basically, I'm all jumbled up... LOL
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bunkergate7
Communicator
"Building Better Worlds"
Posts: 84
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Post by bunkergate7 on Aug 16, 2007 20:55:54 GMT -5
For me, in all film (not just Sci-Fi), it's a combination of both actors and relationships -- and the story. NON-SUNSHINE EXAMPLE: I'll watch anything with Rachel Weisz starring -- bad, mediocre, or good. There's something endearing about every character she plays. Yet "The Fountain" was a thousand times better for me because of her character's relationship with Hugh Jackman's character (and he's an actor I don't particularly like). Their tortured lives together were subtle and painful, thanks to the BRILLIANT story. The visuals topped it all off. Everything seemed real, even though the concept was impossible. neiru2012: Until I posted here, I'd never ever HEARD the term "ship" or "shipping". However, even before seeing Sunshine, I knew I wanted Cillian and Rose to be an on-screen item. Again, I like to look at the whole picture when watching a movie...and IMO, a "relationship" on-screen doesn't necessarily have to be romantic. It can be a friendship, a brotherhood, a partnership, or even mutual disgust. Interaction is interesting on all levels.
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Post by nimue on Aug 16, 2007 22:09:22 GMT -5
Well, I ship two people for their individual character AND their onscreen chemistry.
Although for this movie, I'm like bg7... when I saw the trailers, I knew I wanted Cillian and Rose together which heightened even more when I saw how their characters worked so well with each other.
However, I watch movies considering the plot, the director, the screenwriter and the actors in it. Truth betold, I'd watch Cillian in any movies since I'm practically obsessed with him (and it doesn't hurt that he picks good movies).
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Post by kagerou on Aug 17, 2007 2:35:44 GMT -5
Generally I can find anything to like, whether its romance between characters; an individual character; or just plotline. In Sunshine's case, it has pretty much everything I would like seperately in movies etc. all rolled into a neat package. And for the record, I voted "I <3 Yaoi!!!" because I didn't think anybody else would. I mean, besides the fact that its true for me. ^^ (Mapa 4eva!) Plus I would've chosen more than one of the other answers anyway.
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Post by kaliszewski on Aug 17, 2007 3:16:39 GMT -5
I guess I really don't like the idea of 'ships. I like the idea of stories; I watch a lot of old films, and I'm certainly predisposed to the idea of "handsome young man plus spirited young woman." That is, Cassie and Capa look good together to me. Not that Alex Garland and Danny Boyle went at all out of their way to put them together, but, visually if not dramatically, they're a classic boy-girl movie pair.
If relationships exist between characters, fine. It shows that the writer has a grasp of human nature. If relationships don't exist, or if they do nothing to serve the story, I can't see going out of my way to visualize or create them.
Quick note on 'ships (or, likely, "fic" in general) versus slash: I think that 'ships are story-driven, while slash is a product of hormone-driven fantasy-- and, hence, much more a product of the internet and its communal loneliness. Frankly, it makes me sad. If all that a viewer can glean from a film, say, is the idea of angry sex between two young men (and the "for instance" to which I'm referring is, indeed, "Sunshine"), it reflects poorly on the story and the film as a whole, and seems an embarrassment for the actors. There: there's that bridge burnt!
Movie-wise, though, I'm largely in it for the actors. I've run down movie lists for my favorite golden-age stars (Bogart, Veidt, Chaney, Shearer, Grant, et al.), and "Sunshine" has led me to "list" several of its stars, too. I came to the show because of Cillian Murphy; I've since tracked down films starring several of his "Sunshine" castmates. Will admit, though: Mr. Murphy's continued status as a "list" actor is coming into doubt....
Hmmm....
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Post by nimue on Aug 17, 2007 3:24:12 GMT -5
Kali.. I hope you won't mind me asking, what's a list actor?
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Post by kaliszewski on Aug 17, 2007 3:28:18 GMT -5
Just a phrase I use: I make up a list of movies by a particular actor and track 'em down one by one. It's a lot trickier with actors like Lon Chaney and Conrad Veidt, who've been in more than their fair share of films now considered lost!
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Post by nimue on Aug 17, 2007 3:39:48 GMT -5
D'oh! Thanks for explaining. Hmm... so you're doubting Cillian's list status because... his other films are hard to track down or you're less interested with him now?
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Post by kaliszewski on Aug 17, 2007 3:46:47 GMT -5
I like the idea of him; heck, I like him. But I really haven't enjoyed several of his latest projects (actually, the one I enjoyed most is currently stuck in "release limbo"), and I'm starting to feel a little gun-shy. He sees scripts differently than I do, I guess! Hey: do I need to slap an on this somewhere...?
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Starshine
Pilot
There will be nothing to show that we were ever here - but stardust.
Posts: 297
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Post by Starshine on Aug 17, 2007 7:51:33 GMT -5
The storyline is for me most important, the characters just transport it.
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Post by kagerou on Aug 17, 2007 13:46:39 GMT -5
Quick note on 'ships (or, likely, "fic" in general) versus slash: I think that 'ships are story-driven, while slash is a product of hormone-driven fantasy-- and, hence, much more a product of the internet and its communal loneliness. Frankly, it makes me sad. If all that a viewer can glean from a film, say, is the idea of angry sex between two young men (and the "for instance" to which I'm referring is, indeed, "Sunshine"), it reflects poorly on the story and the film as a whole, and seems an embarrassment for the actors. There: there's that bridge burnt! To qualify: I don't think of sex most of the time when I ship slash; for me, slash is the same as het pairings just with two men. For example, one doesn't look at Capsie and go "OMG get down on the floor and do it!!!11" and I don't look at Mapa and think that either. I know most people look at it funny because they don't have a background in which it comes up much (by background I mean that I grew up loving anime and that's how I got into slash) but I think that the people who ship slash simply for sex reasons should get a life. ^^; Coming from an anime/game background as I do, I tend to favor male-male pairings over het ones. This is mainly because anime/game female characters are boring and annoying. The guys, on the other hand, tend to be a lot more interesting and complex ... I don't think it's demeaning to the characters or the actors, just another way of seeing the movie. ^_^ I understand that slash offends many people because it isn't "canon" and never would be, generally. (Like in Sunshine.) However, a lot of the time I like shipping the unlikeliest of pairings, het or slash, because they are the most interesting, so most of the time I find canon annoying--like in Harry Potter. But again, extremely off-topic. ^^;
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Post by neiru2012 on Aug 17, 2007 17:26:06 GMT -5
Oops, sorry! I didn't mean for this to be off topic. I mean, I can see how it is, but somehow, when I first posted it, my mind meant for it to be related to Sunshine characters/actors. ^_^;; As for Yaoi, I guess I should've called it Shounen-ai, but Yaoi is used so universally in the United States to refer to male-male pairings. Everyone I know that pairs males does so for intricate emotional reasons, not graphic sexual fantasies. They truly do enjoy the relationship between two male characters. Coming from an anime/game background as I do, I tend to favor male-male pairings over het ones. This is mainly because anime/game female characters are boring and annoying. The guys, on the other hand, tend to be a lot more interesting and complex, and often obsess over each other. There's lots to work with for male/male relationships in anime and games. I think it's cute. The Capsie pairing is the most obvious in Sunshine, but I think there are definitely a lot of strong Mapa moments too. I don't think it's demeaning to the characters or the actors, just another way of seeing the movie. ^_^ Coming from an anime/game background as I do, I tend to favor male-male pairings over het ones. This is mainly because anime/game female characters are boring and annoying. The guys, on the other hand, tend to be a lot more interesting and complex ... I don't think it's demeaning to the characters or the actors, just another way of seeing the movie. ^_^ I understand that slash offends many people because it isn't "canon" and never would be, generally. (Like in Sunshine.) However, a lot of the time I like shipping the unlikeliest of pairings, het or slash, because they are the most interesting... Woah, quantum quoting! Quoting me before I said anything! I second pairing and finding connections between unlikely characters for sake of interestingness.
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Post by chero on Aug 17, 2007 18:12:25 GMT -5
This poll is HARD. I'm not 100% sure which choice I fall under. I tend to follow certain actors' careers, but I enjoy the relationships in movies - even if there aren't supposed to be. When I say 'relationships', I mean couples and not family or friends. I first discovered Sunshine because of Cillian Murphy. However, I took his character and fabricated (which later turned out to be not-so-entirely-fabricated) a relationship with Rose Byrne's character because they look good together and the setting of the movie was interesting. This personal observation attracts me to various movies so I'm guessing that my choice would have to be relationships. It's what I picked anyways... After seeing Sunshine though, I literally fell in love with Hiroyuki Sanada and Michelle Yeoh, as individuals and as a couple. I even looked back in their filmographies and found a special gem called Royal Warriors. I would have never seen that movie if it weren't for Hiro and Michelle. It was kindda cheesy yet action-packed and I loved every minute of it because of the actors... and the relationship that I fabricated. I'm so torn. Did I choose the right choice?
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Post by nimue on Aug 18, 2007 1:22:25 GMT -5
However, a lot of the time I like shipping the unlikeliest of pairings, het or slash, because they are the most interesting, so most of the time I find canon annoying--like in Harry Potter. Ooh... which HP fanon ship do you ship?
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