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Post by chancesundance on Sept 11, 2007 10:14:06 GMT -5
Well , I was a little dissapointed that Capa witnessed the rebirth of the Sun and his own ending alone ... It should have been him holding hands with Cassie (maybe even kissing eachother) and both touching the heart of the fusion-core and then they slowly burn/desintegrate into oblivion .... Just like Adam & Eve in reverse .... *Damn , i"m ssso romantic  * |
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Starshine
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There will be nothing to show that we were ever here - but stardust.
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Post by Starshine on Sept 11, 2007 12:56:37 GMT -5
I dont think this would be a good end for a Sci-Fi movie, and especially not for this one. Such a romatic end which you prefer is too Holywood-like for a serious and realistic movie like Sunshine. But I would be nice  |
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Post by chero on Sept 11, 2007 15:07:26 GMT -5
Cassie's presence would ruin the filmmakers' whole message at the end of the film. I don't think she would have contributed more of an impact if she was placed beside Capa, a physicist and intimate companion to the Stellar Bomb (and the Sun when you think of his dreams). Cassie may have a connection of her own to the Sun (heck, most of the characters do), but she has no relation with the bomb (a characteristic I find appropriate for the ending scene). She's not a scientist. She wouldn't "see" what Capa "saw." Capa alone is perfect. In fact, all of the characters suffer their deaths alone. It suits the film's pattern so to speak.
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Post by neiru2012 on Sept 11, 2007 16:25:05 GMT -5
While it is definitely my personal preference that Capa be alone with the Sun and the bomb at the end, and the movie wouldn't have impacted me nearly as much if he wasn't, I can sympathize with some fans' desire for a more romantic ending. Well, I guess I should say romantic on an interpersonal human level, since the ending as it stands now is already romantic to me as far as relationships with the Sun go. If an ending with Cassie would make you happy, there's no harm in fantasizing. That's what this fan fic is for! |
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Post by kaliszewski on Sept 11, 2007 17:25:58 GMT -5
Watching someone about to be burned alive isn't my idea of a romantic ending, period. No matter how pretty the accompanying light show and music are-- or how angelically lovely the burn-ee. Death is an ugly, sticky, hurtful business, and the glorification of Capa's death bothers me no end. This being September 11, I find myself wondering if Mohamed Atta and his friends didn't have a look of ecstasy similar to Capa's as the Boeing 767 they were on rocketed into the World Trade Center six years ago.
Yes: that was an ugly statement. But one more time: we're talking about the glorification of death here. You couldn't wish for greater propaganda than Capa's death: look how BEAUTIFUL death can be. Frankly, putting it mildly, it's a little sick.
Read recently in an issue of New Republic, in the reviews section, a comment along the lines of how a certain filmmaker (not Mr. Boyle) mistook death for the highest form of drama. In "Sunshine," Mr. Garland plays out a plethora of death fantasies. I personally wish he had exercised an ounce more restraint.
But I guess, in his quest to avoid cliches (mistake number two: cliches are not evil in themselves. Only badly written cliches are.), Mr. Garland found "survival" and "human contact" a little too high on his list.
Sad, really. Then again, it's a sad day.
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Post by neiru2012 on Sept 11, 2007 20:14:18 GMT -5
Death is an ugly, sticky, hurtful business, and the glorification of Capa's death bothers me no end. OK, I know we mildly had this discussion before, so I know this is a very sensitive and personal topic for you. It just so happens that it's a personal topic for me too, except in an almost opposite way, so I'm not even sure how to approach discussing it aside from stating from the get go that I respect your opinion and am not looking to change it. I just hope you might have the conceptual flexibility to appreciate where I'm coming from, and not automatically pidgeonhole those that think like me into some kind of "not having personal encounter with death" camp. Now, I can see why you think Garland was very arbitrary with the characters' deaths. I guess it doesn't bother me as much because I'm just used to the action and horror genres and therefore desensitized to movie violence. However, in cases where a movie makes a deeper impact on me, I tend to project my own views of events onto it. That's what happened with the deaths in Sunshine for me, at least the deaths that I cared about the most (Capa, Kaneda, Searle). I have a very holistic view of death. Yes, on a personal level it can feel ugly and hurtful, but it's also part of living, and without it, there would be no life. I would not want to live in a world without death, either physically or metaphorically. Death is a release from the current state of existence, and clears the way for change and renewal. Often it is a release from pain and suffering, as in case of my best friend who passed away last year. I believe she is a lot happier now. I guess that's the other factor, belief. In my belief system, death is not the end, and those that have died are not gone... and that you will meet again, whether in this lifetime or the next, or somewhere in between. That is why I glorify Capa's death and find it beautiful - because I see in it a glimpse of the peace and oneness that I believe death brings. Death is as meaningful and necessary as life... and for those among us lucky enough to choose how we die, it can be the most powerful expression of how we chose to live. By serving as an example of our convictions, we leave behind an immortal legacy. True, this can take the form of suicide bombing, but it can also be self-sacrifice to protect your family, loved ones, or complete strangers. I find comfort in the cycles of death I see in nature, whether it be as direct as the food chain or simply the changing of the seasons. It teaches me that life comes from death, death comes from life, and probably most important of all, that nothing ever truly dies. It goes back to the stardust idea from Sunshine. Individual expressions may change, but the core of who we are as a universe stays the same. Everything is recycled and lays down the foundations for future generations. So yes, to me, death is as beautiful as life. Even the pain we feel when loved ones die, I believe we can use to become stronger, more compassionate people with a deeper connection to our world. Making peace with death teaches us to appreciate being alive. This being September 11, I find myself wondering if Mohamed Atta and his friends didn't have a look of ecstasy similar to Capa's as the Boeing 767 they were on rocketed into the World Trade Center six years ago. Woah, there!  That's like dropping the Nazi bomb on a thread, heh. "You know who else liked X?.... HITLER!" |
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Post by brittany on Sept 11, 2007 21:42:05 GMT -5
What a beautiful post, Neiru. It's very touching...
LY
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Post by chancesundance on Sept 11, 2007 21:43:14 GMT -5
Well , pardon me for going a little philosophical here , but .... DEATH and LIFE are just words .... Sure we are conditioned to get emotional if we see a new life being born or another life that is going to "end". But in the end , are words "just concepts" created by MIND. Hell , we don"t even comprehend our own contradictary existence giving the fact that matter that appears to be solid , exists for 99% out of empty space......nothingness. Quantum-Mechanics would dare to go even further , in that past , present and future is happening at the same time stating that time is NOT linear but STATIC. So to quote Socrates (again) like i did in another thread : There"s wisdom in knowing WE know close to NOTHING ..... But on-topic again: Wouldn"t it be great to have a couple of alternate endings on a Special Edition Sunshine Dvd ?  |
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Post by neiru2012 on Sept 11, 2007 22:22:53 GMT -5
What a beautiful post, Neiru. It's very touching... LY Thank you very much. By the way, that Hiroyuki sig with the kitty is one of the most adorable things I ever seen!!  Hell , we don"t even comprehend our own contradictary existence giving the fact that matter that appears to be solid , exists for 99% out of empty space......nothingness. Quantum-Mechanics would dare to go even further , in that past , present and future is happening at the same time stating that time is NOT linear but STATIC. That is indeed fascinating. I'm on quite the physics kick right now, and reading a lot about the macro universe, but quantum physics is next on my list. I refrain from commenting on that aspect until I understand it more fully. Wouldn"t it be great to have a couple of alternate endings on a Special Edition Sunshine Dvd ? Well there'll already be one alternate ending on it, but yeah, I think it'd be fun to have the Capsie ending as an alternate too. ^_^ A Capsie ending would be geared more towards a human-centric message, I think, which is very far from my interpertation of Sunshine, but there's no harm in gratuitous fanservice so long as the official ending stays put. |
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Post by nimue on Sept 11, 2007 22:46:51 GMT -5
A Capsie ending would have been nice, yes please.  |
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Starshine
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There will be nothing to show that we were ever here - but stardust.
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Post by Starshine on Sept 12, 2007 10:26:54 GMT -5
Without death life would be sensless. Without death life would not be worth for living. You see that death is actually that what makes life beautiful!
I am very interested in physics (favorite school subject) and I want to know more about quantum physics. Where do you read about it? In the internet?
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Post by chancesundance on Sept 12, 2007 12:00:21 GMT -5
Well if you are interested in Quantum Physics i would advice you to watch the 5-part series of The Elegant Universe , it"s about string-theory & Quantum-Physics ... www.youtube.com/watch?v=poINyvCN3tcand maybe this link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4u3Q9aaKIAbtw. In 2008 scientist will begin experimenting with World Largest Hadron Colider (LHC-particle accelerator) in Gèneva ..... among those experiments the"re trying to open new dimensions and possible create a "contained" blackhole .... For the WORST-CASE scenario on this experiment watch the last 5 minutes of this vid: nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Injc2N1Hd90&mode=related&search= |
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Post by brittany on Sept 12, 2007 12:16:08 GMT -5
btw. In 2008 scientist will begin experimenting with World Largest Hadron Colider (LHC-particle accelerator) in Gèneva ..... among those experiments the"re trying to open new dimensions and possible create a "contained" blackhole .... For the WORST-CASE scenario on this experiment watch the last 5 minutes of this vid: nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Injc2N1Hd90&mode=related&search=That video has an interview with Dr. Brian Cox! But in all seriousness, that video gave me chills.  |
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Starshine
Pilot
There will be nothing to show that we were ever here - but stardust.
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Post by Starshine on Sept 12, 2007 15:02:45 GMT -5
Lol yeah, he is in TV there! In the LHC they want to shoot two hydrogen atoms against each other with an extrem acceleration to fusion them. By this way, a black hole were created. But: It's very tiny because of the small mass (normally black holes contain the whole mass of a star!) and it exists very short (fraction of a second).
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volg
Trainee
:D!
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Post by volg on Sept 13, 2007 0:57:58 GMT -5
An artificial black hole? that's spooky man >.< I mean.. what a "WTF" way to die o.o |
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