insanity
Doctor
And it's still so hard to be who you are
Posts: 131
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Post by insanity on Jan 24, 2008 23:47:33 GMT -5
Hey guys, just a quick note to let you all know, come wedneday, I won't be on here as often
great old VCE is finally looming upon me and causing me to do homework and stuff
I'll try and get online on the weekends, but its the scary year of school
Don't progress too far in RPG otherwise I'll have to start printing off pages again!
xoxo Alana
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Post by chero on Jan 25, 2008 14:17:59 GMT -5
insanity: Hopefully a chunk of the RPG will be converted to chapters over at SFO Fanfiction Archive by then. On another note, if I was to compare Mapsie with another triangle, it would most definitely be Harry Potter, Hermione Granger, and Ron Weasley. Capa would be Harry Potter because he is the main guy and everyone's hero. His close friendship to Cassie makes her Hermione. Cassie, like Hermione, loves her best friend and would do anything to have him be successful at any hardship. Mace resembles Ron for being sarcastic, playful, jealous, and high-tempered. Although they may have their rocky times, Mace and Capa are ultimately friends like Harry and Ron, especially at the end of the movie. Fanfiction is explosive with Harry/Hermione/Ron. I feel it's kindda like that with Capa/Cassie/Mace. In my opinion, although Capsie has a seemingly wider fanbase, the truth lies with Massie. And for those of you who have read the Harry Potter books, you should have seen this conclusion coming.
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Post by kaliszewski on Jan 25, 2008 18:13:43 GMT -5
insanity: Hopefully a chunk of the RPG will be converted to chapters over at SFO Fanfiction Archive by then. On another note, if I was to compare Mapsie with another triangle, it would most definitely be Harry Potter, Hermione Granger, and Ron Weasley. Capa would be Harry Potter because he is the main guy and everyone's hero. His close friendship to Cassie makes her Hermione. Cassie, like Hermione, loves her best friend and would do anything to have him be successful at any hardship. Mace resembles Ron for being sarcastic, playful, jealous, and high-tempered. Although they may have their rocky times, Mace and Capa are ultimately friends like Harry and Ron, especially at the end of the movie. Fanfiction is explosive with Harry/Hermione/Ron. I feel it's kindda like that with Capa/Cassie/Mace. In my opinion, although Capsie has a seemingly wider fanbase, the truth lies with Massie. And for those of you who have read the Harry Potter books, you should have seen this conclusion coming. See, here's where we'll bump heads. Up front, I have to admit, I've followed the Harry Potter phenomenon. I've seen several of the movies. Number three I thought was very good, done very much in the directorial style of Michael Powell. But I haven't read the books. I read far enough into the first one to realize I didn't need to read any more-- that is, the plot wasn't hooking me and Rowling's writing style wasn't going to teach me any new tricks-- and I stopped. But I'm uncomfortable identifying a "truth" with Massie. Speaking more from life experience and less from Potter, I guess: to me, Mace is the "bad boy." And, sure, the "bad boy" is thrilling at first with his sarcasm and temper and whatnot. But, in the end, oftentimes the bad boy is just "bad." What seemed like high spirits at first sooner or later turns exhausting-- or dangerous. As the thousands of women whose cases I've read and my two older sisters, with their two trainwreck divorces, might attest. Just another view.... Edited to add: Been thinking, and the guy on whom I've sort of been basing Capa in the RPG-- a good friend, a real-life genius-type, thoughtful and quiet but borderline goofy and occasionally absentminded, too, with a big, scary science-y degree-- actually is with a gal who reminds me, in terms of vitality and spunk, very much of Cassie. They've been married for-- holy hell!-- it's coming up on sixteen years now.... Wowza.
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Post by chero on Jan 25, 2008 23:15:51 GMT -5
But I'm uncomfortable identifying a "truth" with Massie. Speaking more from life experience and less from Potter, I guess: to me, Mace is the "bad boy." And, sure, the "bad boy" is thrilling at first with his sarcasm and temper and whatnot. But, in the end, oftentimes the bad boy is just "bad." What seemed like high spirits at first sooner or later turns exhausting-- or dangerous. As the thousands of women whose cases I've read and my two older sisters, with their two trainwreck divorces, might attest. Just another view.... Yeah, there will never be an absolute "truth" until Rose Byrne or Alex Garland decide to speak up. But I suppose the mystery is where the fanfictions become wonderfully open to creativity. This fact makes the issue bearable for me in a small way. As for Mace being the "bad boy" who is comparable to an abusive husband, I would have to disagree. Such thinking is much too radical in my opinion. Sure Mace got carried away in the beginning when he attacked Capa, but imagine yourself in his position (which is nearly impossible considering the extreme circumstances that all of the characters are under [i.e. saving mankind, working in space, losing communication with other people, etc). It's no wonder why Capa took his messages so seriously. They could have been the last ones he will ever send to his loved ones (and he was right). Mace never got that chance. I don't have a brother. I don't have many guy friends. What I do know though is testosterone and the fact that it affects anger. I think Mace succumbed to a natural response to rage and fear. Usually men fight their urge to cry ("Boys don't cry" as the saying goes). I think by focusing on the rage, Mace was trying to overcome his fear of not being able to talk to his friends and family back on Earth ever again - perhaps even to avoid showing his vulnerability to his crewmates. This is kindda similiar to what Harvey underwent emotionally regarding his lovesickness. It's a "guy thing." After he was analyzed by Dr. Searle and observed by Captain Kaneda, Mace was completely set on the mission. His character, like a new forum member said, breaks away from the typical hero since Mace's heroics aren't specifically commemorated by the saved public, but they are divided equally among all of the crew members. He didn't get extra kudos for finding a way to return to Icarus II while being stuck on Icarus I. He didn't get extra kudos for submerging himself into freezing coolant liquid to get the power back on in the spaceship. The only other instance where Mace got out of hand after his therapy lesson was when he smeared Trey's blood on Capa's hand. That was bold and insensitive. However, out of all the deaths, Trey's was the first one to be up close and personal at that point in time: Kaneda's and Harvey's were in space while Searle's was on another spaceship. Trey really brought the mortality in Sunshine to a whole new level. Anyone could have been shook up at the unexpected sight of a friend/colleague who is sitting dead on the floor (and who is very elaborately so). Mace could have blamed Capa for two reasons: (1) his blinding respect for Kaneda and/or (2) his well-established animosity for Capa. The first reason can even be applied to Capa who irrationally blames himself in a deleted scene (my opinion on who's to blame has been mentioned before so I won't go there). The attack response by Capa can also be compared to Mace's during the "Message Home" scene. Since Capa (as assumed by the deleted scene) believed that he was the reason why the trajectory was changed, he could have felt fear in front of the others and even rage against Mace. The rage is there particularly because Mace may have openly insulted him as a comeback to the "Message Home" scene. It is like Mace told Capa without words the following: In exchange for preventing me from sending a message to my loved ones (an action confirmed to be impossible from now on), I will place guilt and humiliation on you in front of the remaining crew (who so happen to be female). So, at the movie's end where Mace discovers Capa trapped in the airlock and then engages in his last conversation with him, they are both "even." They are both purged of their animosity for each other. They beautifully support each other and create one of the most memorable scenes in Sunshine... ...I don't think Mace is dangerous at all. This is just my personal analysis about the movie. Don't take it as fact by any means!
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Post by kaliszewski on Jan 25, 2008 23:31:25 GMT -5
Ah, I didn't necessarily mean "abusive." Not in terms of outright verbal or mental abuse, that is. More geological, I guess. A long-term wearing-down. I didn't mean to lump Mace in with the psychopathic toads I read about at work. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Be that as it may: points taken!
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Post by chero on Jan 26, 2008 0:21:50 GMT -5
Geological abuse? That's an interesting term. I've never heard of it before...
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bagel
Communicator
Also...I can kill you with my brain
Posts: 61
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Post by bagel on Jan 27, 2008 20:20:59 GMT -5
Chero, your post was really enlightening on Mace's character Last night I let (*cough*forced*coughcough*) my friends to watch Sunshine They fell in love with Mace And since I am such an avid Capa-lover, I wondered why they leaned towards Mace so much They kept saying things like: "He is so hot when he is mad" or "Look at how he completely takes charge, mmm" And I began to think that maybe they just liked him because they loved Chris Evans and his body XD But then the scene were they discuss killing Trey came And my friend actually made me rewind as she said that the way that Mace's eyes told so much had her breathless She loved how he was so straightforward and takes action when its needed But then she mentioned that when he is looking at Cassie, who is at her weakest and most humane moment, Mace softens - if only in his eyes - before he turns away The hard and calculating Mace facing the soft and weakened Cassie Im not sure if those are the best adjectives, but still Its the whole opposites thing, and the way Chris Evans translates Mace's understanding just with a look So after that I started seeing Mace in a new light We ended up having to pause the scene where Mace finds Trey already dead Someone had to answer a phone call or something And the screen had a shot of Mace looking down and all the crew blurry and in the background The same girl that noticed Mace's glimmer of humanity pointed to the screen and said: "See, I told you he still has his humanity" And again, another softening of my view of Mace And by the time the scene comes where Mace and Capa talk via. Cooling tanks and airlock...I was totally pouty as Mace said his last words
I started wondering why I still loved Capa so much more I usually love the rough guys But for some reason Capa is just so endearing and sweet and nerdy that he takes the cake for me Somewhere in the movie when Pinbacker is going after Cassie, there was a shot of Mace looking all determined and like he was about to do something My friends that were Mace-cheerleaders said something about how Mace was being "a man's man" and doing what Capa could not
I started thinking about that And there is no way Capa could act like Mace and get away with it given the situation Capa is the only one that has to stay alive If he was as aggressive and vocal about the need to get rid of other members for the sake of humanity, he would come across the completely wrong way
Take the scene with the Icarus 1's airlock for example Harvey is all in his face and telling him to take the suit off Mace has room to speak up because he is like a third party and smooths over the situation pretty well But take that and replace Mace with Capa Harvey is telling him frantically to get out of the suit And Capa would have to yell back, or calmly tell him, that he was the one that had to go instead The first thing that would come to mind is: "Is he really thinking of the Earth or is he thinking of himself?"
The way that Capa stays silent and usually detatched gives him the air that he is a victim of this as much as anyone And if he took charge it would shift perspective a lot on him and his character Most likely in the wrong light
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insanity
Doctor
And it's still so hard to be who you are
Posts: 131
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Post by insanity on Feb 16, 2008 4:20:02 GMT -5
Bagel
your post was both insightful and interesting...upon second and third viewing of sunshine, I did notice some of the things you talked about in Mace
(especially the softer sides of him)
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Post by caseycolin on Aug 17, 2010 5:39:12 GMT -5
Do you have the lyrics for that Mapsie song you mentioned up top? Term Papers
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